Conversion Stories

[seanbrockest]

Every website needs this thread. Post your conversion/deconversion stories here

Myself i was born into a united christian family, at one point in my history i can remember going to church almost weekly. All i remember is being bored to death. I wouldnt' even go to the sunday school, because it made no sense to me. When all the kids went downstairs to thier classes, I stayed in the pews with the adults, content to just think to myself instead.

Long story short, i dont even know how i "became" an athiest. As a child i do remember praying here and there, usually only because i wanted something. Later i remember praying for some proof that he existed. i reasoned quite highly as a child. i gave him options. said "do this and you'l have my belief", and that continued well into my teen years.

Of course nothing ever happened, and as soon as i learned the word "Atheist", i knew i was one. It just made sense.

You?

[JohnKoehler]

I was also raised in a Christian family.  Conservative Baptists, actually.  I do remember I really enjoyed the sense of belonging to the community, the potlucks were amazing, and I always thought I'd stay with it, though I didn't really buy into the whole doctrine.  In 8th grade I really converted, thanks to my band teacher whom I admire greatly to this day.  I had decided to give up my sinful ways and follow God.  I got married, had kids of my own, and brought them up as Christians too.  Oh how I regret this, but that's another story.

Then one day, at about the age of 30 I picked up "The Blind Watchmaker" by Professor Richard Dawkins and everything changed as I read it.  I started the book a fairly convinced Christian with some questions about the "evil" theory of evolution, and laid the book down an atheist, with no use for God or most of the people who I thought I respected.  It took years but I've finally deprogrammed myself from religion and have spent my life trying to show others the errors and evils that religion brings. 

The day that it really hit me that I'd become an atheist was a strange one for me.  I felt as if my whole world had dropped out from under me to reveal a much more complex and exciting world than I'd ever known possible.  It was scary at first, but in time I got used to it.  I believe strongly in the scientific method and logic, and am eternally grateful to Professor Dawkins for helping me escape the intellectual anesthesia of religion.  I'm far more spiritual now than ever before as I commune with my environment as part of it, as opposed to the 'steward' of it.  I feel elated to be related to every other life form on this planet, and I am a willing, seeking student of the universe sitting in a state of perpetual awe. 


JohnKoehler

[Taylor]

I was raised in a conservative Christian home too, but my family is Evangelical. I started having some conversations with non-Christians that led to questioning things, around the age of 15, and I nearly lost my faith until I discovered apologetics and theology. It seemed like there was something deeper than the crap thrust to most people during church services, so for a while I strengthened my beliefs by concocting a defensive shield of excuses, ready for anyone who might challenge my faith. I started helping out on the worship team and in the youth group at my church, and I would say I was a very serious and devout believer.

The event of my deconversion still puzzles me a little, because it almost seems "miraculous", lol. Literally one day I found myself sitting in my room and thinking, "I'm tired of being a Christian and I'm tired of the excuses". I didn't become an atheist that day, but I told myself I would step back and consider the question of God in general before I'd let myself believe in any religion. I think I had known all along that apologetics and theology were futile endeavors, but I just hadn't found the courage to admit it to myself for some time.

After I lost my faith, I stepped down from the worship team and shortly quit the youth group too. I finally accepted my atheism when I started looking into other religions and into science and found the lack of evidence for any god to be quite persuasive.

[littledanny]

I grew up going to Catholic church most every Sunday.  There was never any explanation for why other than "you just have to."  For the longest time I figured that God made everything and blesses us with all we have so our payment to him is to suffer for an hour every Sunday morning. After awhile I would ask why we even bothered to go to church if we didn't pay attention to what was said and didn't talk about any of it during the week.  When I was allowed to make my choice of going or sleeping in, I slept in.

Before my high school years I was at a Christian basketball camp in Prescott, AZ.  There was a speaker who talked about why we each need to personally invite Christ into our lives.  Since I had a good understanding about Jesus but had not yet asked him to be apart of my life, I decided to do so.  I woke up the next day and wondered when I would feel different.  For a couple years I wondered if that was all there was to being a Christian.  But the problem was, if you wake up in the same bed, to the same friends in the same school with the same job, then what difference does being a Christian make?

Over the next few years I got an answer.  I noticed that some things that I had no problem doing previously were now difficult because of this battle inside.  Now when I lied, I felt sick to my stomach, like I had sold part of myself, or when I stole I was reminded  of what it feels like to have my stuff jacked.  If I insulted my brother my heart would sink along with his countenance.  When I told other Christians that I didn't need church to be close to God I almost laughed at the emptiness of my words.  Then after awhile of being in control of my own life I realized that I'm pretty bad at directing my own path.

I see now that God was working in my life.  The analogy that comes to mind is that of my life being a yacht.  I had invited God onto my boat but told him to stay on the lower decks until I needed him to help steer my through a storm or if I wanted to send him to help another boat.  He started wondering around my yacht cleaning up the messes that I'd made and rebuilding the rooms that I had torn down.  Eventually he made it to the control room and asked if I would let him in.  I finally decided to let him have a shot at steering my boat since I didn't know where I was going.

Since then I've felt the remorse of being a jerk turn to forgiveness, the contempt for my parents and siblings turn into love, my lust for every woman in site turn to respect for them as people, my anxiousness at the crappy times in life turning to peace, even when I lost my job or I didn't know when I would have money for food, or even when my wife was diagnosed with cancer.

Originally I had no problems with the idea of dinos being millions of years old and evolution giving rise to all animals on earth even when they were contrary to what the Bible taught.  Over time and studying both sides of the issues (and believe me, other Christians were more of a hindrance than a help) I've seen that the evidence for the God of the Bible and the words that are in it are more trustworthy than those of fallen pride-filled men, even well meaning men.

[Taylor]

Over the next few years I got an answer.  I noticed that some things that I had no problem doing previously were now difficult because of this battle inside.  Now when I lied, I felt sick to my stomach, like I had sold part of myself, or when I stole I was reminded  of what it feels like to have my stuff jacked.  If I insulted my brother my heart would sink along with his countenance.  When I told other Christians that I didn't need church to be close to God I almost laughed at the emptiness of my words.  Then after awhile of being in control of my own life I realized that I'm pretty bad at directing my own path.

There was a period of my life where I experienced many of these same things you describe, and some of them (like realizing my faults when I insult a friend/family member or lie to someone) I still do feel, even without the belief in a god. However, none of this is divine. It's a well known fact that we can condition ourselves to think and act in certain ways. If you spend a lot of time listening to people who talk about the immorality of slipping in church attendance, you'll eventually start to agree with them, since you already have the Christian framework and lifestyle that motivates you to read the bible and pay attention to what pastors and family tell you.

Since then I've felt the remorse of being a jerk turn to forgiveness, the contempt for my parents and siblings turn into love, my lust for every woman in site turn to respect for them as people, my anxiousness at the crappy times in life turning to peace, even when I lost my job or I didn't know when I would have money for food, or even when my wife was diagnosed with cancer.

First of all, I think a lot of people mistakenly attribute a growth of maturity to Christianity, when it is so often something that merely comes with age or with experience. I feel much more free in forgiving people now, since it really is my choice and not something I feel obligated to do because I believe it's what Jesus/God would want me to do. I have never really hated my siblings or parents, as a Christian or as an atheist now. Lust is something we all deal with, and I'm betting that you still struggle with it. As I said though, if you tell yourself something enough times and begin to immerse your thinking in a specific subject like respecting women and lusting after them less, then you change your thinking. It's not about God or being a sincere believer, it's about you taking control of your thought processes.

Some people find comfort in music, art, relationships, and even "sinful" things like alcohol, drugs, sex, etc. But I wouldn't say that you found comfort in God. You probably found comfort in the community of the church you started attending, or you found comfort in looking to a book for instructions on your own life when you didn't know what to do. Sometimes even repetitious rituals like prayer and meditation can give a person comfort, because they help to slow you down, clear your mind, or let you concentrate. A lot of people hold up their experiences and emotions as evidence for God working in their lives, but neither of them are actually evidence of anything except your preferences to relax and change your thinking.

Originally I had no problems with the idea of dinos being millions of years old and evolution giving rise to all animals on earth even when they were contrary to what the Bible taught.  Over time and studying both sides of the issues (and believe me, other Christians were more of a hindrance than a help) I've seen that the evidence for the God of the Bible and the words that are in it are more trustworthy than those of fallen pride-filled men, even well meaning men.

I repeated this very same mantra for several years of my life. It seems like a virtuous thing, to take the word of a pure and perfect being over the fallible word of we imperfect and impure human beings. But you're not actually taking the word of any god over that of man. You're just taking the word of ancient men over the word of modern men. It's an indisputable fact that the bible was written by men - it didn't just drop from the sky one day. I know you believe it was "inspired by God", but that is a claim that requires a lot of special evidence. Many religions throughout history have also claimed their holy books were inspired by God. But we always find in them the marks of human design, with primitive ideas on race, sex, class, and science. The bible is flawed in all of these areas, making it just another man-made fantasy book among many.

[scissorhand26]

I only actually converted recently. I was Christian for quite a few years of my life. I believed the whole crazy bit about the earth being young, and created before the rest of the universe was. I took every story literally, I was basically completely and absolutely deluded. I feel quite ashamed of that part of my past, as I usually pride myself on rationality. I'm still not an atheist, I'm just agnostic. I'm not sure what my belief is, but I think there might be a God, just not what Christianity describes.

I'm not really sure what started me off my path of Christianity, mainly I learned more about it. I found out that the bible endorsed rape, genocide, infanticide, slavery. There were no excuses for this, and the attempts by people to excuse it were just disgusting. They'd say things like "well, it was okay for that time period". Bullshit, killing babies isn't okay just because it's 4000 BC. Also, God claims that his laws are perfect and eternal, yet everyone says they are outdated. I realized to be a Christian was to try and have your cake and eat it too. I just can't live with myself constantly rationalizing beliefs to myself that don't make sense. I am now staunchly apposed to Christianity and any other religion filled with dogma and hatred.

The worst thing is as a Christian I got my mom involved in the church again. It's nice that she has the social, but it's rotting her brain. I've heard her try to make the sorts of excuses that I mentioned before. I think more than anything else I'm probably an agnostic pagan, who considers that it's quite possible there is no God, but still still think there is.

[littledanny]

Taylor said:

"It's a well known fact that we can condition ourselves to think and act in certain ways. If you spend a lot of time listening to people who talk about the immorality of slipping in church attendance, you'll eventually start to agree with them, since you already have the Christian framework and lifestyle that motivates you to read the bible and pay attention to what pastors and family tell you."

Forgive me if I am incorrect, but the line of reasoning used above can also be made for an atheist viewpoint, can it not?  There is also one assumption that I must correct you on, and since I am the one that the conversion story is about then I have all the authority to make such a correction.  When I was feeling this battle in my mind over who I was before and this "new" me that wanted to come out, I wasn't attending church or really hanging out with Christian people.  The previous times when I was told that I had to attend church had no affect because it was obvious that sitting in church doesn't make you a Christian any more than being in an airport makes you an airplane.  The need I felt for going to church was all about community and wanting to learn more about God than about any thoughts of it being immoral to miss church.  I wasn't reading the Bible or paying attention to what pastors and family were saying because I wasn't around church people and my family didn't care to talk about it (as I stated in my original post).

"First of all, I think a lot of people mistakenly attribute a growth of maturity to Christianity, when it is so often something that merely comes with age or with experience. I feel much more free in forgiving people now, since it really is my choice and not something I feel obligated to do because I believe it's what Jesus/God would want me to do. I have never really hated my siblings or parents, as a Christian or as an atheist now. Lust is something we all deal with, and I'm betting that you still struggle with it. As I said though, if you tell yourself something enough times and begin to immerse your thinking in a specific subject like respecting women and lusting after them less, then you change your thinking. It's not about God or being a sincere believer, it's about you taking control of your thought processes."

I'm glad to hear that you are a forgiving person, too often people refuse to forgive and suffer more than those they hold the grudge against.  I would have to agree that some people can mistakenly attribute regular maturity to Christianity.  There are those that sit in a pew and start acting "right" in order to show their girlfriend or family that they have grown up, which is a problem with religion (I'll define religion as something people do to earn right standing with god or gods).  I do still struggle with lust but it's hold on me is a small fraction of what it used to be.  And yes, if you begin to immerse your thinking in a specific subject like respecting women and lusting after them less, then you can change your thinking or take control of your thought processes.  But again, my story is mine and your assumptions are incorrect about it.  You have put the cart before the horse and given me more credit than I deserve.  My level of maturity only rose because of the change in my heart. I never sought to correct my thinking towards women the way you suggest, but my thinking towards women was changed for me.  When it happened, I was working in a motorcycle shop in Scottsdale that had many scantily clad women walking through our doors.  When ever they would, someone would get on the intercom and call for a salesman on "line 14".  After I let God take over, my desire to even look up from the bike I was working on was gone.  It was really weird that I truly would rather keep working than stare at a hot woman.  This change had nothing to do with my thinking, but with my heart change for God.

Also, I forgive people because as bad as I am, I've been forgiven, so how could I not forgive.  For me, it has nothing to do with obligation, it's thankfulness.

"Some people find comfort in music, art, relationships, and even "sinful" things like alcohol, drugs, sex, etc. But I wouldn't say that you found comfort in God. You probably found comfort in the community of the church you started attending, or you found comfort in looking to a book for instructions on your own life when you didn't know what to do. Sometimes even repetitious rituals like prayer and meditation can give a person comfort, because they help to slow you down, clear your mind, or let you concentrate. A lot of people hold up their experiences and emotions as evidence for God working in their lives, but neither of them are actually evidence of anything except your preferences to relax and change your thinking."

Again, you needn't say that I found comfort in God because this story isn't about you.  As stated before, I was not going to church so I couldn't have found comfort there, and I wasn't reading any books or performing ritual prayers or meditations.  While they can bring comfort to people, they did not apply to my story.  I did find comfort in God for it was only me and my conscience that eventually led me to realize that I need to pursue God, not any outside influences.  In fact all my outside influences wanted nothing to do with religion or God so I couldn't talk with anyone else about it.

"I repeated this very same mantra for several years of my life. It seems like a virtuous thing, to take the word of a pure and perfect being over the fallible word of we imperfect and impure human beings. But you're not actually taking the word of any god over that of man. You're just taking the word of ancient men over the word of modern men. It's an indisputable fact that the bible was written by men - it didn't just drop from the sky one day. I know you believe it was "inspired by God", but that is a claim that requires a lot of special evidence. Many religions throughout history have also claimed their holy books were inspired by God. But we always find in them the marks of human design, with primitive ideas on race, sex, class, and science. The bible is flawed in all of these areas, making it just another man-made fantasy book among many."

There is a good amount of special evidence on the side of the Bible being what it claims to be (and yes, I know, just because a book says it doesn't make it true, but that is not my argument).

I agree that the Bible didn't just drop from the sky one day and that it was penned by men and yes, that they were inspired by God.  The Bible was originally written by forty plus writers who were separated by time (1400 yrs), language (Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek), distance (3 continents, Europe, Asia, Africa), and walks of life (kings to fishermen) yet the Bible is congruent from front to back (if you disagree, please post references to be discussed).  The Bible has also shown itself to be accurate before the science of the day caught up.  In Genesis Abraham was told his offspring would be as numerous as the sands on the shore and the stars in the sky.  In A.D. 150 Ptolemy stated there were only 1,022 stars in the heavens.  

I am unaware of the primitive ideas on race, sex, class and science in the Bible that you are referring to.  I would love to look into them further and discuss them at a later time.

[Taylor]

Forgive me if I am incorrect, but the line of reasoning used above can also be made for an atheist viewpoint, can it not?  There is also one assumption that I must correct you on, and since I am the one that the conversion story is about then I have all the authority to make such a correction.  When I was feeling this battle in my mind over who I was before and this "new" me that wanted to come out, I wasn't attending church or really hanging out with Christian people.  The previous times when I was told that I had to attend church had no affect because it was obvious that sitting in church doesn't make you a Christian any more than being in an airport makes you an airplane.  The need I felt for going to church was all about community and wanting to learn more about God than about any thoughts of it being immoral to miss church.  I wasn't reading the Bible or paying attention to what pastors and family were saying because I wasn't around church people and my family didn't care to talk about it (as I stated in my original post).

Sure, it could apply to atheism too. I don't think it's unfounded what some Christians say, about how if you "desensitize" yourself to some things, you'll feel less bad about them and descend into that slippery slope of non-belief. Of course, that alone really doesn't say anything about whether or not desensitization to those things is actually good or bad.

I acknowledge that I don't know what was running through your head during these incidents, but I do believe you're not giving yourself enough credit. You need not have been attending church at the time or hanging around Christians, but I'm willing to bet that at some point prior to your development of these feelings, someone had told you that you needed to get right with God or go to church. It may not have affected you at the time, but it's not uncommon for us to dwell on events from the past, especially during moments of vulnerability or stress, when we start wondering why certain things happen to us or why we behave certain ways. Again, I'm making observations based on my own experiences with this, and similar testimonies told to me by many of my friends. You might think none of what I say applies to you, and perhaps you're right. But on the other hand, perhaps you just haven't realized the real cause/reasons yet.

I'm glad to hear that you are a forgiving person, too often people refuse to forgive and suffer more than those they hold the grudge against.  I would have to agree that some people can mistakenly attribute regular maturity to Christianity.  There are those that sit in a pew and start acting "right" in order to show their girlfriend or family that they have grown up, which is a problem with religion (I'll define religion as something people do to earn right standing with god or gods).  I do still struggle with lust but it's hold on me is a small fraction of what it used to be.  And yes, if you begin to immerse your thinking in a specific subject like respecting women and lusting after them less, then you can change your thinking or take control of your thought processes.  But again, my story is mine and your assumptions are incorrect about it.  You have put the cart before the horse and given me more credit than I deserve.  My level of maturity only rose because of the change in my heart. I never sought to correct my thinking towards women the way you suggest, but my thinking towards women was changed for me.  When it happened, I was working in a motorcycle shop in Scottsdale that had many scantily clad women walking through our doors.  When ever they would, someone would get on the intercom and call for a salesman on "line 14".  After I let God take over, my desire to even look up from the bike I was working on was gone.  It was really weird that I truly would rather keep working than stare at a hot woman.  This change had nothing to do with my thinking, but with my heart change for God.

Also, I forgive people because as bad as I am, I've been forgiven, so how could I not forgive.  For me, it has nothing to do with obligation, it's thankfulness.

First of all, I won't argue that adopting a new philosophy or religious belief can impact the way we think. Becoming a Christian probably will help some people cope with lust, anger, and other issues, but I don't see how Christianity is therefore the only thing that could have helped them. Even if they tried out other religions beforehand and swear that Christianity was the only one that worked for them, it's impossible for them to say that nothing else in the known universe could have had the same effect (like meditation, support groups, music, art, whatever).

Secondly, when you come to adopt a new philosophy or religious belief, you are, by definition, changing your thought processes. There is nothing miraculous about it. People change their minds on major and controversial issues all the time, especially if they are connected to events/experiences in their own lives.

Again, you needn't say that I found comfort in God because this story isn't about you.  As stated before, I was not going to church so I couldn't have found comfort there, and I wasn't reading any books or performing ritual prayers or meditations.  While they can bring comfort to people, they did not apply to my story.  I did find comfort in God for it was only me and my conscience that eventually led me to realize that I need to pursue God, not any outside influences.  In fact all my outside influences wanted nothing to do with religion or God so I couldn't talk with anyone else about it.

Are you trying to tell me that at no point did someone ever tell you about Christianity and the need for forgiveness or any of that? Nonetheless, I'm sure you're aware that there are many Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Scientologists, and other religious believers who have stories to share that are very similar to yours. What makes you so convinced that your story is unique and evidence of the Christian god?

There is a good amount of special evidence on the side of the Bible being what it claims to be (and yes, I know, just because a book says it doesn't make it true, but that is not my argument).

I agree that the Bible didn't just drop from the sky one day and that it was penned by men and yes, that they were inspired by God.  The Bible was originally written by forty plus writers who were separated by time (1400 yrs), language (Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek), distance (3 continents, Europe, Asia, Africa), and walks of life (kings to fishermen) yet the Bible is congruent from front to back (if you disagree, please post references to be discussed).  The Bible has also shown itself to be accurate before the science of the day caught up.  In Genesis Abraham was told his offspring would be as numerous as the sands on the shore and the stars in the sky.  In A.D. 150 Ptolemy stated there were only 1,022 stars in the heavens.  

I am unaware of the primitive ideas on race, sex, class and science in the Bible that you are referring to.  I would love to look into them further and discuss them at a later time.

That statement about Genesis and Ptolemy is breathtakingly poor. People have made mistakes, yes. Science did not exist as a coherent discipline for many centuries, but the interesting thing that you ignore is that religion preceded science, and where ancient myths and superstitions once accounted for the explanations of our physical world, science has debunked them with irrefutable evidence time and time again.

This website I run, www.godlesshaven.com, has a variety of articles on it devoted to the sexism, intolerance, and inconsistencies found in the bible (and the Qur'an). Feel free to browse them sometime and comment here in the forum or even email and ask questions.

[8grolschman8]

I was raised by 2 atheist parents which i feel is largely the reason why i am also one.   I was baptized into the Presbyterian church and i participated in Bible Camps for the activities and social aspects rather than the religious content.  The answer i got as to why 2 atheist parents would have their children baptized was that if we wished to join a religion it would be a lot more socially acceptable to the congregation to have us baptized young. Also that way if we chose atheism then the act of getting a wet head was literal only.  I was the only atheist to bring written permission to be excused from the weekly bible studies class at my school and in its place i was given a "study period" along with the Jehovah's Witness students.

Some could argue that i had little choice in the matter of conversion having both parents as atheists. For my mind, it was around the time i stopped believing in Santa Clause because i likened the miracles of the bible to flying reindeer and put them all in the "not possible" box.  It was an inevitable comparison for me to make with the strong links between Christmas, Santa and Jesus but a very important step in my minds ability to question what is and what is not.

My family keeps its only copy of the bible next to some Dan Brown novels which i like to call the "religious fiction" section of the bookcase and the last time i picked it up was to test the "Gideons Disease" urban legend cure for my ganglion many years ago.

[urkme]

I became a Christian several years ago. Until that time, I believed as some of you do now. I looked around me and couldn't see much evidence of God. I saw lots of evidence of very fallible and broken people who were unloving and very self-centered. Funny thing, though. I could see and feel evidence of an evil presence. Maybe it was from the messed up people I was around. Maybe it was from within myself, since I was messed up too. The more I traveled in life, the more messed up I became. I really tried to be a good person. I wanted to be very unselfish. I wanted to be kind and caring. I just even wanted to be nice. I wanted to change and be a person I could like. Try as I might, I couldn't for the life of me make it happen. Despair followed. A sense of failure and hopelessness followed. Sadness. Was this all there was to life? People trying and never getting anywhere? People fighting for themselves? People wanting to feel necessary and of value and not being able to? I must admit, I thought of suicide. Life sucked and hurt. I tried meditation. Nothing. I tried self-help strategies I'd read about. Nothing. I tried occult practices. Worse. More anger. More inner turmoil. More CONFUSSION. I heard about Jesus. I heard he was real. I heard God created the world and made it beautiful and designed it to be a place where he would live with the people he made and life would be good. I heard people chose to go a different way, to deny and disobey. I heard it brought sin into the mix. I heard a loving God became a man, for the whole purpose of dying in men's place, so they could be forgiven. I HOPED. I TRUSTED. I took a chance. Faith. I begged for help.
I found help. I found a deep peace within. I found a reason not to be selfish. I found a reason to live. I found love. Honestly, love found me.
I promise not to name call on this site. It grieves me. I ask you to give me the same courtesy. I promise not to throw insults at your opinions and beliefs. I hope you'll do the same. I thought this could be a place to dialogue. I hope so.

How are you able to live with good morals apart from faith in God? It's a sincere question. I repect you for even being able to do that. It's more than I was able to accomplish.

[Taylor]

How are you able to live with good morals apart from faith in God? It's a sincere question. I repect you for even being able to do that. It's more than I was able to accomplish.

Do you honestly think that faith in God is the only reason we should live a moral life? I find this view to be extremely misanthropic. Even if we believe there is no god that governs this universe, there are still billions of people and other organisms inhabiting this planet. In fact, they are more real than any supernatural entity, because they are physical beings that most of us encounter on a daily basis. Once we began interacting with each other, we quickly realized that "no man is an island". In the struggle for survival, co-operation and altruism can be very beneficial, and we see this in many species besides humanity. Morality is just an idea we ascribed to our interactions with other beings. Some people developed different theories on how to interact with others, and from there we received all the numerous ethical paradigms we have today. As Christopher Hitchens has said, "We [humans] have not gotten our morality from religion, religion has gotten its morality from us".

There are many reasons to be moral apart from faith in a god: to be respected by our peers, to try and make sure our needs are met (they never can be if we isolate ourselves or cheat and harm all those around us), to live at peace with ourselves and not suffer guilt that can come from misbehavior, to guarantee that no one may mistreat us (Jesus' golden rule is ironically a great example of an ethical theory that does not require belief in a god), and so forth. Cultural context plays a tremendous role in the morals we live by too. You yourself admit that before you were saved, you were hanging around people who were bad influences and negative role models. Did religion really change your behavior, or was it ditching your old circle of friends that did the trick? I've actually known people who've gone through exactly the opposite transition. Before they converted, they were calm, nice, and open-minded individuals, but once they came to faith, they began to judge others, constantly be cynical, and close their minds to anything outside their religion. I wouldn't say their faith was what changed their morals though, as it was clearly the new group of friends they began to hang around at church, who inadvertently taught them that being a Christian means looking down your nose at the rest of the world.

If your faith is what inspires you to better yourself as a person, that's great. But don't mistake your own passion or feeling for a universal truth. Many of us do just fine without believing in a god, even though you might assume otherwise. Where does this assumption come from anyway? Perhaps part of the problem is in how believers and non-believers define what is "morally good". While we both can agree that things like murder, rape, and theft are wrong (in most cases), things get a lot fuzzier when theology and religion come into it more. Suddenly when simply disobeying God or disbelieving is defined as "morally wrong" by a Christian, the non-Christian has lost the debate by default. But the problem here is that Christians do not always obey their god either, and such a religious definition of moral goodness is entirely an article of faith. Naturally, those of us who do not have faith will not accept moral criticisms you level at us based on your faith, nor will you probably accept the criticism of a Muslim or Jew who thinks you are immoral for worshiping Jesus as God.

Basically, there is no difficulty in living a moral life apart from faith in a god, unless you are already predisposed to reject morality, regardless of belief or disbelief.

[squirrel_nut]

i grew up in a presbyterian family. church every sunday. bible studies and all the discussion groups. through all that, i never felt God in my life and always
doubted what i could not see or sense. i felt as if people were worshiping the wind. nevertheless, i learned alot in the church environment. there were
many good morals presented to me, not that i embraced any of them. up to this point i considered myself an agnostic. that all changed in high school when
i chose to attend a prestigious episcopalian school. church service 6 days a week. more bible studies and manditory theology classes. this is where i was
exposed to hermeneutics. at the same time, i took 4 yrs of Latin and read many of the great classics in english and latin/greek. man, was that an eye opener.
my doubts solidified into contempt for the many manipulations that the christian church has wrought for centuries. i believe this realization has led to a general
skepticism i have for all things that humans create in their brains that are beyond our normal perception. UFOs, ESP, ghosts, magic? bugger off with that stuff!
it really is a shame. how fantastic it would be if there was a supreme "god". but as it stands with me, he will have to sit down right in front of me and then try
and convince me the err of my ways. i wont be holding my breath waiting for that day.
"urkme" raises a question that i have been asked numerous times by christians once they realize my beliefs (or lack thereof). i tell them that i have a brain and
dont need to be told how to treat other people or be told what is right vs wrong. many of my moral descisions are made by having seen the wrong choices. perhaps
i learned some good leasons in church as a child. there are a lot of great messages being sung from the pulpit, if it wasnt for that faith thing.